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	<title>Comments on: New ATF Form 4473 Coming Out</title>
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	<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/</link>
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		<title>By: Justin Buist &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Gun Law Trivia</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16542</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Buist &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Gun Law Trivia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16542</guid>
		<description>[...] New ATF Form 4473 Coming Out  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] New ATF Form 4473 Coming Out  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16541</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16541</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure it&#039;s just a matter of how North Carolina (your state) defines a handgun.  I&#039;m unable to find one easily, but have gathered that it includes crossbows, which aren&#039;t even firearms.

Using Michigan as an example, because I live here, the legislature has defined a pistol as anything that is shorter than 30&quot; when in a firing configuration.  Consequently the 29.5&quot; long Kel-Tec Sub 2000 (a rifle by federal standards, and goes down as a long-gun on the 4473) requires a pistol purchase permit to transfer.  Another example would be a pistol-gripped shotgun with a nice short 18.5&quot; barrel on it.  Should be around 27-28&quot;, not a pistol by federal standards (not a shotgun either, but I digress) but it&#039;s a pistol by Michigan&#039;s standards and requires the pistol purchase permit to transfer.

In short: This change shouldn&#039;t change anything at the state permit process level anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure it&#8217;s just a matter of how North Carolina (your state) defines a handgun.  I&#8217;m unable to find one easily, but have gathered that it includes crossbows, which aren&#8217;t even firearms.</p>
<p>Using Michigan as an example, because I live here, the legislature has defined a pistol as anything that is shorter than 30&#8243; when in a firing configuration.  Consequently the 29.5&#8243; long Kel-Tec Sub 2000 (a rifle by federal standards, and goes down as a long-gun on the 4473) requires a pistol purchase permit to transfer.  Another example would be a pistol-gripped shotgun with a nice short 18.5&#8243; barrel on it.  Should be around 27-28&#8243;, not a pistol by federal standards (not a shotgun either, but I digress) but it&#8217;s a pistol by Michigan&#8217;s standards and requires the pistol purchase permit to transfer.</p>
<p>In short: This change shouldn&#8217;t change anything at the state permit process level anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: chris</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16540</link>
		<dc:creator>chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 01:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16540</guid>
		<description>so what happens in states that require pistol permits to buy pistol AR lowers?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>so what happens in states that require pistol permits to buy pistol AR lowers?</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt "45superman" Hofmann</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16539</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "45superman" Hofmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16539</guid>
		<description>Oops--my attempt to post a link to the form itself didn&#039;t seem to work--&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/100308f4473_pt1_aug2008-sample-rev.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;let&#039;s try again&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8211;my attempt to post a link to the form itself didn&#8217;t seem to work&#8211;<a href="http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/100308f4473_pt1_aug2008-sample-rev.pdf" rel="nofollow">let&#8217;s try again</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Kurt "45superman" Hofmann</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16538</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt "45superman" Hofmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 00:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16538</guid>
		<description>&lt;a&gt;This&lt;/a&gt;, apparently is the new form, although it appears that &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/100308atf-important-ffl-notice-rev.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;they&#039;ve delayed the switch until January&lt;/a&gt;.

I&#039;m still not quite clear on whether or not one will be legally able to build (for example) an AR pistol out of any AR lower receiver (as long as it doesn&#039;t have a shoulder stock attached), without any additional paperwork/fees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a>This</a>, apparently is the new form, although it appears that <a href="http://www.atf.gov/press/2008press/100308atf-important-ffl-notice-rev.pdf" rel="nofollow">they&#8217;ve delayed the switch until January</a>.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m still not quite clear on whether or not one will be legally able to build (for example) an AR pistol out of any AR lower receiver (as long as it doesn&#8217;t have a shoulder stock attached), without any additional paperwork/fees.</p>
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		<title>By: ajkurp</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16537</link>
		<dc:creator>ajkurp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 16:44:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16537</guid>
		<description>Now the bad news:  Even though the length of the form for the buyer hasn&#039;t materially changed at one page of normal sized print, there are approximately three and one half pages of Notices, Instructions and Definitions in fine print.  When buyer signs the form he certifies under penalty of felony perjury that he has read and understands all of the Notices, Instructions and Definitions.  

Good luck.  I don&#039;t generally consider myself stupid and it took me most of a morning to read and understand the text with references to U.S. code.

The first guy I used the form with looked at the fine print, shrugged and said, &quot;Hell. I can&#039;t even see that.  Where do I sign?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Now the bad news:  Even though the length of the form for the buyer hasn&#8217;t materially changed at one page of normal sized print, there are approximately three and one half pages of Notices, Instructions and Definitions in fine print.  When buyer signs the form he certifies under penalty of felony perjury that he has read and understands all of the Notices, Instructions and Definitions.  </p>
<p>Good luck.  I don&#8217;t generally consider myself stupid and it took me most of a morning to read and understand the text with references to U.S. code.</p>
<p>The first guy I used the form with looked at the fine print, shrugged and said, &#8220;Hell. I can&#8217;t even see that.  Where do I sign?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gregory Morris</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16536</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregory Morris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 13:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16536</guid>
		<description>But I wanna buy more guns before November 15th.  Before November 4th for that matter.

Looks like the changes are mostly improvements.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But I wanna buy more guns before November 15th.  Before November 4th for that matter.</p>
<p>Looks like the changes are mostly improvements.</p>
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		<title>By: SayUncle &#187; 4473 Changes</title>
		<link>http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/2008/10/27/new-atf-form-4473-coming-out/comment-page-1/#comment-16535</link>
		<dc:creator>SayUncle &#187; 4473 Changes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:56:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.justinbuist.org/blog/?p=1760#comment-16535</guid>
		<description>[...] Justin notes that the form is changing: They have checkboxes now for the </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Justin notes that the form is changing: They have checkboxes now for the</p>
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